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She is intelligent, honest, brave and beautiful. Praise God. Thanks Gavin

Not sure if this has been commented on, but it's interesting to note that icon veneration is very similar in the oriental orthodox tradition. they split with EO over the council of Chalcedon which was in 451 a.d.. I wonder how ortlund would explain the same accretion (if it was an accretion) happening in the two churches. Seems more likely that the head waters would be shared if you find the same water in two branches of the river...

Beautifully done.

As a protestant who can affirm 98% of what I hear on this channel, I feel there's a point in this video where the irenic tone is lost. It is especially disheartening to hear peer review being appealed to as the reason that a given content provider should have weight. If you don't have time to respond to others' content, then don't respond, and leave it at that. Don't take the shortcut of telling us that your work has the stamp of superior scholarship. And if there's a serious limit to what you can respond to, don't ask so often for people to comment.

In a book in netherlands was chapter on this topic. Tells that christians taken as slave.. were the start of change of the north

Dawkins is far to comfortable with his world view. He is convinced that what Christian beliefs are rubbish. He wants to shame the lady if she admits to certain beliefs. On a side note, I think the right brain / left brain thing is not very well understood. I think logic and emotion are far more complicated than this. I am no expert however.

The increase in movie references is delightful. Thanks for a great video!

I am Eastern Orthodox and am part of one of the most conservative and insular orthodox groups out there - I love your work, you’re the man!!!! Your content is so helpful and enjoyable even when I disagree which is often.

the reformed movement does this, it is totally creepy. I've heard this from multiple neo-calvinists and reformed people. Its always the most well-off that say this stuff and have never had any setbacks. That whole "keep your expectations low." I'd love to see him in other people's shoes: not able to make rent, no job prospects, and driving a 20 year old car.... trying to go to church and school, then being told "you aren't good enough" for us because you don't have money..... yeah.. ok .. that is being a jerk.

Amen!! Be faithful to the end. You are Loved as are all of us, we just need to accept the Love.

Great argument from tradition

I like applying Paul in 1 Corinthians 1:22-25 like this: “For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom (and Americans crave spectacular entertainment), but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles (and a bore to Americans), but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God (and the spectacle of God). For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men (and the simplicity of God is more awesome than men).” Also, Tertulian’s De Spectaculis certainly is not perfect (he *may* have struggled with your point that the Lord is not seeking to diminish our joy or pleasure), but to your point about catechesis, he appeared to be concerned that our awe can be desensitized and diverted away from the many wonders we have in Christ by entertainment (whether specifically immoral or not): “You long for the goal, and the stage, and the dust, and the place of combat!” I think this is good wisdom to mull over in the face of mass addiction to entertainment that is even “appropriate” in content.

Dawkins: you don't believe Mary got pregnant by God, that is nonsense also Dawkins: isn't it so amazing how everything just magically spawned out of nothing all by itself somehow!

Its completely unhelpful for the Orthodox priest to make it seem like the Orthodox Church thinks that Protestants are part of the Church, there is no doubt that the Holy Spirit is working in the lives of everyone all around the world drawing them to Christ but that doesn’t mean Protestants are in the church Even the admission that Protestants are always Christmated implies that they weren’t in the church prior to entering Orthodoxy, Chrismation is the reception of the Holy Spirit that means with out Orthodox Chrismation you have not received the Holy Spirit I’m glad there’s dialogue but all this conversation does is muddy the waters and make it seem like we’re just another denomination If you think venerating Iconography and Invoking the intercession of Saints is idolatry, Those are practices we do everyday and we will never stop If it’s unrepentant idolatry you cannot call us brothers or in the Church It’s inconsistent to call us unrepentantly and dogmatically idolatrous and say we are brothers with you That is the exact equivalent to saying someone who practices murder or adultery without repentance and says they believe in Christ is your brother Our disagreements are fundamental, and it would be much more helpful to just admit that we are mutually exclusive

In a previous video (I can't remember where or when), you were asked if Christ had one will or two wills. I recall that you said one will. Would this one will be the divine will or a human will? Furthermore, would you say the same thing about the intellect / mind of Christ? In other words, did Chist have one mind? Would that mind be human or divine? Thanks.

I really love this discussion. So much so that I have watched it multiple times!

My question is this: how do we know that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are persons? Would it be anti-biblical to say these three are just three modes / ways or apsects God acts toward creatures. It seems the unity of God could be better preserved in this way. In other words, we then would avoid the whole problem of trying to explain how each of the three is fully God and yet at the same time there aren't three gods. This is the criticism of Isalm against Christainity. That religion maintains that Christians are polytheists. I beleive Sabellius of the third century was the first one to put forth the theory that the three realities in God were modes and not persons. He was condemned for it

It is refreshing to see an Eastern Orthodox priest who conveys a truly gracious attitude toward Protestants.This is the type of dialogue that needs to take place

So you're agreeing with everything the orthodox Church teaches, but you don't want to be part of the orthodox Church

I mean when you come from a place of “there is something” then leads you to it has to be an all powerful God the miracles of virgin birth, healing, and resurrection are not the typical stumbling blocks. The most shocking thing is God is personal, that He cares, and that He wants to draw all to Him. Atheists wrestle with how there could be miracles when there is nothing. Christians wrestle with a God that cares.

Gavin how do you answer the question of evolving morality with Christianity? With moral objectivity from God, how does it make sense that God can allow things like slavery or even divorce when he sees them as immoral, and then later repeal these? Was God being immoral by allowing immorality to not be a sin?

If you’re a Christian and you’ve been baptized, you’ve been baptized into Christ. Am I hearing that this priest is saying that if you want to join his church, you need to be rebaptized? If so, that’s heresy. (Refer to Galatians 3:27: ‘For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.’)

I think the criticism of the magisterium misses the mark. Because it is a sort of “living institution” - if someone incorrectly interprets Scripture of something the magisterium has said, the magisterium can correct them.

Hi Gavin. What about the Eucharistic miracles the RC church have investigated where the host contained heart tissue and blood…? If true it changes everything.

As an "old" atheist, meaning someone who was atheist before the rise of Dawkins and the "new" atheism of the early 2000s, the one thing I credit Dawkins with, through his book, was me "coming out of the atheist closet" so to speak. Before, I'd either deflect, or kinda hide my atheism behind vague language when the subject of God or religion came up. So, that I'll give him credit for. But, over the last 18 years of reading both other atheist or agnostic thinkers, as well as religious and apologetics arguments, I realized that Dawkins is honestly, intellectually underdeveloped on many of religious ideas, Christian or otherbeliefs, and definitely not an effective communicator. On religion, he's pretty much Bill Maher with an British accent. This isn't to say that he's necessarily "wrong" about things seemingly nonsensical to him. There are belief that people hold, that I find genuinely puzzling. And THAT'S where I think the more important conversations can happen. Dismissing something as nonsense, is far less interesting than actually listening to someone explain why it is they believe it. Not so much to listen to be convinced, more so to listen to better understand how beliefs work. What moves people. Why, as an atheist, do I somehow not see what literally tens of billions of other humans have, for a very long time. I haven't watched this discussion yet, because honestly, Dawkins is a tough listen these days. This doesn't mean I think atheist shouldn't ask her tough questions, I just hope we ask MEANINGFUL questions. P.s. Apologies for the wall of text 😂

Love it. Where’s the outro music Gavin? Always has me feeling like I’m about to play wave race 64

The one true church is within catholicsm and orthodoxy both baptise infants. Qed. prayers for reversal of the ‘great schism’ the patriarchs of today are making progress.

A couple of thoughts that come to my mind. I too study all these differences in great detail and I tend to lean on and agree more with the early church in most controversial questions. 1. We are ultimately saved by faith. Note that I don't say "faith alone". 2. James says I will show you my faith by what I do. 3. There are many scriptures in the Gospel where Jesus praises others for how they showed their faith. As a result, if our faith leads us to obedience to God's will than I think Jesus will say to us "Your faith has saved you". Therefore, whatever you believe concerning baptism will be credited to us as righteousness as James would say. I personally take a literal interpretation of what Paul says in Romans 6 in that in baptism I have UNITED myself with Christ and I a am raised to a new life. It is my faith into the work of Christ that he has done is what saves me. It's not the water or the act of baptism that saves me. It is the work that Christ did that saves me by me putting my faith in Christ via baptism.

I listened to the audiobook and found myself gripped the entire time. I have an interest in what this would look like as a Prime, Netflix, or Max series

I'd love to hear what you have to say regarding the Jordan and Alex conversation on Jordan Petersons podcast recently.

Thanks!

LOVE the Top Gun: Maverick connection! God bless you Pastor Ortlund; sending prayers from Kyiv, Ukraine!

I thought this would be a boring talk... but not at all. Thanks for whomever organised this debate!

Protestantism opens the floodgates of accommodating to the world. I don't like this, but I like this sort of Christianity. I'll invent this part even though no church before me used it, and I'll ignore this since I don't like it. This is what protestatnism does from the start.

6:16 have a listen to iain mcgilchrist on this

Hoping you have listened to "The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God" podcast/book by Justin Brierley. Its great!

Let me preface by saying I do not in anyway want to be unkind or dismissive of those who advocate only for credo (believers) baptism. Having said that, modern American Evangelicals who support only Credo Baptism are outside of traditional christianity. Almost universally up until the time of the Reformation the Church, both East & West, taught "regenerative" Baptism, including for infants. During and immediately following the Reformation the Reformers, including Luther and Calvin, condemned those Anabaptists who spoke against regenerative and specifically infant baptsim. My point is that modern American Evangelical Christianity, which descends from the Anabaptists, is outside traditional Christianity, and is in essence a "new" Branch within Christianity. This does not mean that all Chrisitans who support infant and regenerative Baptism agree precisely on what happens in baptism, but rather that modern American Evangelicals are not even in the discussion amongst those who follow biblical teaching on Baptism.

I think you should watch 2001: A Space Odyssey if you haven't already.

Dawkins' statements reminded me of how Leo Strauss pointed out years ago that during the Enlightenment anti-religious thinkers didn't succeed in disproving the claims of faith, but they effectively resorted to mockery. "Don't you think it's nonsense?" or "Obviously, that's not true" are not rational arguments for or against something.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the person without the Spirit does not receive what comes from God's Spirit because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually. This is Dawkins.

Why not say slavery was never condemned? Why are y'all ashamed of the Bible!?

My worry is she did not answer his question about the resurrection at all. She used the word “something” a few times. She never mentioned sin, repentance, salvation, forgiveness, Christ paying the penalty for her sin, the cross, His blood shed for her. There was a lot missing from her “ testimony”. She was told to “ pray” by a psychiatrist/ psychologist- who did she pray to and what did she pray? That’s important. I would have to hear a lot more about what she actually believes. K

I believe the Bible is God’s revelation to us and that nobody comes to the Father apart from Jesus. I’m also a universalist. My journey started with an article entitled The Bible and Universalism by Keith Derose. Hell makes no sense. Calvinism is horrible. Basically, much of western Christianity came from Latin translations that misinterpreted many key verses. Long story short, eternal hell is terrible doctrine. David Bentley Hart and others have helped on this journey. We need to trust and follow Jesus.

Dawkins’s scientism precludes his from considering the possibility of a reality beyond the material. In actuality, his viewpoint is probably more “faith”-based than the typical Christian philosopher or cosmologist, where his priors make it impossible for him to honestly seek out and attempt to rationalize the views of those who disagree with him. Dawkins is undeniably an intelligent individual in his field, but when it comes to matters of philosophy, especially ontology and epistemology, he is woefully lacking.

One of the problems with Dawkins is instead of actually engaging the thinking with Christian theology, he just all describes it as all nonsense as has been his campaign from the early 2000s. Contra to his believed intellectual honesty, he's not a very open minded person. He's already come up to their own decision before even digging deep enough to critique it. And he is not good at critiquing it. The God delusion was not a compelling book.

Why not just say God is allowed to do genocide? You guys want to treat God like he is a mere man who doesn't have power over life and death.

Yes, popular Christian apologetics are too much like Marcionites. The problem is, they're trying to cater to fallen man's intuition to much.

The moderator talked too much. Gavin and Father were great.

When you realize protestantism is illogical but your anti-Catholic bias is sticky...

My favorite part in Contact (the movie), was when Jodi Foster and Matthew Mcconaughey's characters were on the balcony during that party, talking about love, and proof. Not sure if that is in the book, but man, is that ever a powerful scene. "prove it" 🤯